....on the highway you are never going to have a problem with overnite parking-camp grounds are another issue....they usually suck anyway IMHO.....but then again I have been asked to leave since I don't "look" like others....and it ain't a matter of skin color....it was because I had 4 girlz with me that were "in the business" so to speak and with the string bathing suits and revealing clothing were causing some traffic problems and causing the locals to stare a lot---specially the geezers and pizzzing off their old ladies.....but that goes with the territory when one is doing events and shows....[there is a method to my madness]....I do use girlz to create a lot of attention when on a buying/selling trip.....my trailer is a carhauler that is converted to LQ when we are traveling and inside sales areas when doing shows-with the girlz doing the attraction stuff-also keeping their eyes on the mdse cuz a lot of shows are full of crooks and thieves these days....there is a lot of rip-offs at even the weekend crafts/art shows....specially in the jewelry booths and 'course the things that go bang bang rapidly will walk off if you close your eyes when you sneeze....my carhauler has no windows as there is where most thieves gain access to you and your possessions....and the doors have inside locking mechanisms/alarms to keep us safe at nite....I sleep like a rock and can only be waken up by silence...crazy as it seems- I have to have backgound noise to sleep of I'm awake instantly...something left over from S.E.Asia.....I can't sleep in a regular MH as there are too many windows and too little security...also I like modest surroundings-glitz and glamor-make me unconformable-that is for the girls to generate and regulate...."To each his own"-and "Form Follows Function" are the guiding principles of how I do business...others have their issues and appreciate other designs-which I will do my best or produce in the most reasonable priced and energy efficient methods and materials obtainable......I keep up on all the most modern methods of construction and energy efficient methods of construction....I also have employees that specialize in design-planning and color for those who want other looks and materials.....geofkaye..
Stealth Camper Build Thread
- Thread starter Ran D. St. Clair
- Start date
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- Tags
- truck
Bob86ZZ4
Senior Member
RanD, you simply must consider writing a book. You sure seem to have the ability to craft one. You should contact a writing professor at a local college or university and see if there is some grad student looking for a project to assist you with it. I love to read and I would certainly buy your book.
Ran D. St. Clair
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2009
- Messages
- 212
Thank you all for your kind words. Perhaps in about 2 years when I am no longer building surgical robots and stealth campers I will have time to do some writing. Who knows, it could turn into a 2nd career. I do enjoy sharing with you guys and the feedback is great. Turning it into a paying job might just take all the fun out of it though. Given the chance, I would do it just for the fun of doing it. Given the way the internet is progressing a self published online book and/or blog might be an option. At least it's a future I can look forward to.
Thanks,
R.D.
Thanks,
R.D.
Doc Weaver
Senior Member
"2nd CAREER!!!" I just started my 4th. Come on and join me on planet Stress.
Doc Weaver
Doc Weaver
Senior Member
GK you scare me. I see me own future. NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!1
Ran D. St. Clair
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2009
- Messages
- 212
Mistakes and First Impressions
I received my stuff from Radiolabs,
http://www.radiolabs.com/produ...reless/wireless.html
All the stuff I bought from them, which includes the antennas, cables, splitter, and Wi-Fi amplifier appear to be of high quality and well made. I do have a couple of problems though. The antenna cables I bought are very large and stiff. The cable itself is 0.4” diameter and the N-male connectors are almost 0.8”. I consider this to be my mistake, not theirs. The cables are well made, probably very low loss, and the connectors are high quality. They would probably be perfect for a fixed application that didn’t have to move.
I also didn’t realize how big N type connectors are. I have been using BNC, or the even smaller SMA type connectors all my life, and just assumed that N type was similar – My mistake. The connector size is important because I need to fit the cables through holes in the roof and I don’t want to make those holes any bigger than necessary. I could feed the cables through tight fitting holes that would be easier to seal, and then install the connectors later, but installing connectors on Co-Ax cable (Co-Axial, meaning an inner conductor and an outer shield) is not a trivial matter. It often requires special crimping tools, or good soldering skills, and even then it can be a challenge to make reliable connections that are subject to weather and constant movement, especially when you are doing it on top of the truck.
Do it yourselfers should be warned not to use the cable and connectors sold at the local hardware store for TV antennas. TV antennas are traditionally 75 ohms, while the cables for Wi-Fi are almost always 50 ohms. It would take me a page or two to explain the difference between the two, so lets just say that mixing them up won’t damage anything, but it won’t work very well either. It would pretty much negate all the money you spent on a fancy antenna to use the wrong cable.
Fortunately there are many other options for 50 ohm cable, and there are also connector adapters. They probably all involve some slight loss of signal strength or are not as weather resistant, but it is all a necessary compromise. I probably wasted about $60 on cables I can’t use, but given my life history, that’s nothing.
I also received my Range. It’s a standard 22” RV model from a major supplier for about $500. I won’t mention the exact make because I don’t like to bash, but I was not impressed. My first impression is that it is cheap and will probably not last. The burners are light weight aluminum, not cast iron, the grate is just glazed wire, the knobs are cheap plastic, and the valves feel sloppy and don’t operate smoothly, at least in terms of their mechanical feel, and the whole thing is made from fairly light gauge sheet metal.
I suppose you get what you pay for, and the quality is probably similar to other RV type units. Most RV’s are used only occasionally so the appliances don’t need to last as long as a home unit. I needed something smaller than the full sized ranges you might find at the home improvement store, and those units tend to go for twice the price. It remains to be seen if it will stand up to steady use. If it lasts a year or two then I will do some more research and try to upgrade when the time comes.
It didn’t help my impression when it arrived damaged. The shipping company had stacked on top of it and stomped on it as well. I could see the footprints on the top of the box. At first I thought it had survived unscathed, but then I realized that the grate was bent.
They warn you up front to note any external damage to the shipping container at the time of delivery so you can pursue any claims with the shipping company. I am having all this stuff delivered to my work, so I am not personally there when the trucks arrive. The guys in shipping are doing me a favor so I can’t yell at them (even though they are supposed to note damage like this on everything they receive anyway). The bottom line is that they didn’t note the damage, so I haven’t got a leg to stand on. I ordered a replacement grate for another $50 plus shipping. I will recommend the folks at RV Dealership.com as a source for replacement parts such as this.
http://www.rvdealership.com/rvdstore/index.aspx
I also received my over-stove power module. This is the metal box insert that goes into the hood containing the fan, filter, and overhead task light. It was a standard home unit from a major manufacturer that I also won’t name. It is very much a chincy piece of junk, thin sheet metal, spot welded, right out of the 1950’s. I think they are intended to be more or less disposable. They make the actual stove hood out of stainless, or something more durable that looks nice, and then these inserts, that are mostly out of sight, just drop in.
Fortunately, all I really wanted was the sheet metal and filter. I won’t be using the cheap AC shaded pole motor, nor will I be using the 40W light bulb sockets. I will replace the motor and fan with a 12V muffin fan from the electronics store, and the 40W light bulbs with white LED’s. The stove hood itself, to the extent that I have one, will be integrated into the cabinetry and probably made of plywood like everything else. If I get ambitious, I may bend something up out of stainless, but there is lots of time for that later.
A word of warning about 12V DC fans and motors. I recommend you always get something with ball bearings, not plane bearings, especially in a horizontal application (meaning blowing up or down). Plane bearings will go dry due to gravity if mounted horizontally and will eventually jam. Also, in this day and age, there is no reason to use a brushed motor. Brushes wear out over time. Modern electronics replaces the brushes with solid state switching circuitry that will outlast the motor and are no longer that expensive.
As for the LED task light over the stove, I know that LED’s are still considerably more expensive than florescent technologies for conventional lighting applications. They are starting to show up in some specialty applications where mechanical durability or low current are of primary concern. I think in time they will come to dominate, just as florescent lights have come to dominate over the old fashioned incandescent (filament style) bulbs.
I have a cheap option for those who are handy with a soldering iron. Just after Christmas there will be sales on the white LED Christmas lights at about $5 for a string of about 64 lights. Altogether they make about 40W of light. (Light output similar to an old fashioned 40W incandescent light bulb.) You could just shove the entire string into your light fixture and run them off of 120V AC, but I have a somewhat more elegant plan.
I pull the LED’s out of the sockets and wire them up in 15 strings of 4 each in series. They can then be connected directly to 12V with no regulator or series current limiting resistor. You do need to be aware of polarity as they only work with the current flowing in one direction. The combination of 15 x 4 = 60 LED’s gives about 40W of light for about 5W. By contrast, I have a 12V florescent light with two “15W” bulbs that draws 1.95A at 12.6V or 24.57W. Florescents are about 4.3 times more efficient than the old incandescents so it puts out about 107W of effective light.
(I know, referencing everything back to incandescent is an archaic and silly way to do this, but we all have a sense of how bright a 60W incandescent light bulb is. If I started talking lumens no one would have any idea what I meant. Besides, I don’t actually have a light meter so this is all very approximate anyway.)
Bottom line, the LED Christmas lights are about twice as efficient as the florescents, and they will probably never burn out in my life time. They will get a little dimmer over time, but so will the florescents. With no current regulation they will get noticeably brighter and dimmer as the voltage changes which could be a little annoying when you fire up the microwave for example. It’s not fair to compare the cost of the LED’s to the florescent, which was about $60, since the florescent is an entire fixture ready to install. Also, the LED’s produce a blue-white light, while the florescents, depending on the specific tubes, produce a warmer orange-light. The light from the LED’s is also very concentrated and blinding, so you really need a diffuser of some sort.
I will still be using the 12V florescent lights for bulk lighting in a recessed ceiling mount. I may replace the guts with LED’s some day, but for now there are many more important things to work in than saving about 1A of 12V DC.
To be Continued…
I received my stuff from Radiolabs,
http://www.radiolabs.com/produ...reless/wireless.html
All the stuff I bought from them, which includes the antennas, cables, splitter, and Wi-Fi amplifier appear to be of high quality and well made. I do have a couple of problems though. The antenna cables I bought are very large and stiff. The cable itself is 0.4” diameter and the N-male connectors are almost 0.8”. I consider this to be my mistake, not theirs. The cables are well made, probably very low loss, and the connectors are high quality. They would probably be perfect for a fixed application that didn’t have to move.
I also didn’t realize how big N type connectors are. I have been using BNC, or the even smaller SMA type connectors all my life, and just assumed that N type was similar – My mistake. The connector size is important because I need to fit the cables through holes in the roof and I don’t want to make those holes any bigger than necessary. I could feed the cables through tight fitting holes that would be easier to seal, and then install the connectors later, but installing connectors on Co-Ax cable (Co-Axial, meaning an inner conductor and an outer shield) is not a trivial matter. It often requires special crimping tools, or good soldering skills, and even then it can be a challenge to make reliable connections that are subject to weather and constant movement, especially when you are doing it on top of the truck.
Do it yourselfers should be warned not to use the cable and connectors sold at the local hardware store for TV antennas. TV antennas are traditionally 75 ohms, while the cables for Wi-Fi are almost always 50 ohms. It would take me a page or two to explain the difference between the two, so lets just say that mixing them up won’t damage anything, but it won’t work very well either. It would pretty much negate all the money you spent on a fancy antenna to use the wrong cable.
Fortunately there are many other options for 50 ohm cable, and there are also connector adapters. They probably all involve some slight loss of signal strength or are not as weather resistant, but it is all a necessary compromise. I probably wasted about $60 on cables I can’t use, but given my life history, that’s nothing.
I also received my Range. It’s a standard 22” RV model from a major supplier for about $500. I won’t mention the exact make because I don’t like to bash, but I was not impressed. My first impression is that it is cheap and will probably not last. The burners are light weight aluminum, not cast iron, the grate is just glazed wire, the knobs are cheap plastic, and the valves feel sloppy and don’t operate smoothly, at least in terms of their mechanical feel, and the whole thing is made from fairly light gauge sheet metal.
I suppose you get what you pay for, and the quality is probably similar to other RV type units. Most RV’s are used only occasionally so the appliances don’t need to last as long as a home unit. I needed something smaller than the full sized ranges you might find at the home improvement store, and those units tend to go for twice the price. It remains to be seen if it will stand up to steady use. If it lasts a year or two then I will do some more research and try to upgrade when the time comes.
It didn’t help my impression when it arrived damaged. The shipping company had stacked on top of it and stomped on it as well. I could see the footprints on the top of the box. At first I thought it had survived unscathed, but then I realized that the grate was bent.
They warn you up front to note any external damage to the shipping container at the time of delivery so you can pursue any claims with the shipping company. I am having all this stuff delivered to my work, so I am not personally there when the trucks arrive. The guys in shipping are doing me a favor so I can’t yell at them (even though they are supposed to note damage like this on everything they receive anyway). The bottom line is that they didn’t note the damage, so I haven’t got a leg to stand on. I ordered a replacement grate for another $50 plus shipping. I will recommend the folks at RV Dealership.com as a source for replacement parts such as this.
http://www.rvdealership.com/rvdstore/index.aspx
I also received my over-stove power module. This is the metal box insert that goes into the hood containing the fan, filter, and overhead task light. It was a standard home unit from a major manufacturer that I also won’t name. It is very much a chincy piece of junk, thin sheet metal, spot welded, right out of the 1950’s. I think they are intended to be more or less disposable. They make the actual stove hood out of stainless, or something more durable that looks nice, and then these inserts, that are mostly out of sight, just drop in.
Fortunately, all I really wanted was the sheet metal and filter. I won’t be using the cheap AC shaded pole motor, nor will I be using the 40W light bulb sockets. I will replace the motor and fan with a 12V muffin fan from the electronics store, and the 40W light bulbs with white LED’s. The stove hood itself, to the extent that I have one, will be integrated into the cabinetry and probably made of plywood like everything else. If I get ambitious, I may bend something up out of stainless, but there is lots of time for that later.
A word of warning about 12V DC fans and motors. I recommend you always get something with ball bearings, not plane bearings, especially in a horizontal application (meaning blowing up or down). Plane bearings will go dry due to gravity if mounted horizontally and will eventually jam. Also, in this day and age, there is no reason to use a brushed motor. Brushes wear out over time. Modern electronics replaces the brushes with solid state switching circuitry that will outlast the motor and are no longer that expensive.
As for the LED task light over the stove, I know that LED’s are still considerably more expensive than florescent technologies for conventional lighting applications. They are starting to show up in some specialty applications where mechanical durability or low current are of primary concern. I think in time they will come to dominate, just as florescent lights have come to dominate over the old fashioned incandescent (filament style) bulbs.
I have a cheap option for those who are handy with a soldering iron. Just after Christmas there will be sales on the white LED Christmas lights at about $5 for a string of about 64 lights. Altogether they make about 40W of light. (Light output similar to an old fashioned 40W incandescent light bulb.) You could just shove the entire string into your light fixture and run them off of 120V AC, but I have a somewhat more elegant plan.
I pull the LED’s out of the sockets and wire them up in 15 strings of 4 each in series. They can then be connected directly to 12V with no regulator or series current limiting resistor. You do need to be aware of polarity as they only work with the current flowing in one direction. The combination of 15 x 4 = 60 LED’s gives about 40W of light for about 5W. By contrast, I have a 12V florescent light with two “15W” bulbs that draws 1.95A at 12.6V or 24.57W. Florescents are about 4.3 times more efficient than the old incandescents so it puts out about 107W of effective light.
(I know, referencing everything back to incandescent is an archaic and silly way to do this, but we all have a sense of how bright a 60W incandescent light bulb is. If I started talking lumens no one would have any idea what I meant. Besides, I don’t actually have a light meter so this is all very approximate anyway.)
Bottom line, the LED Christmas lights are about twice as efficient as the florescents, and they will probably never burn out in my life time. They will get a little dimmer over time, but so will the florescents. With no current regulation they will get noticeably brighter and dimmer as the voltage changes which could be a little annoying when you fire up the microwave for example. It’s not fair to compare the cost of the LED’s to the florescent, which was about $60, since the florescent is an entire fixture ready to install. Also, the LED’s produce a blue-white light, while the florescents, depending on the specific tubes, produce a warmer orange-light. The light from the LED’s is also very concentrated and blinding, so you really need a diffuser of some sort.
I will still be using the 12V florescent lights for bulk lighting in a recessed ceiling mount. I may replace the guts with LED’s some day, but for now there are many more important things to work in than saving about 1A of 12V DC.
To be Continued…
.....RE: MISTAKES AND FIRST IMPRESSIONS.... A department store-[h.h.gregg] apartment style gas stove is $170 from Maytag and LEDS are cheap from a off shore truck lite manufacture....ABOUT $ 14 each ready to install-I use "back up lites" and buy them by the case of 24....they are about 1/4 the price of a US manufacture rite now-for white lite....the reds/yellows are less than $10 each by the case(24). There are a lot of boat accessories that are LED now so one can modify as needed for utility/cabinet lites.....The stove is ready to bolt up/down AND THE ELECTRIC IS EVEN EASIER JUST PLUG IT IN....some require a change of orifice and some do not....read the directions and modify as needed.....personally I never use a stove in a MH for any reason.... small hot plate is obsolete..[I'm scared poopless of fire and explosions inside] [ unless I get to detonate a large super charge/napalm-then I get excited!].....so I use a outside gas grill for cooking and a microwave inside for anything else....I suck at cooking so I do eat out most of the time.....also there are MRE's that are very good from an agent in Indiana at about $4.00 for a 2500 calorie meal X 3 times a day means your a fatazz real quick!...and I drink water or Iced tea in a can....milk/ice cream is good from a 7/11 or any of the small quick stores....I do have coffee/teas and tang type drinks-&-mix with powder/water type things. I don't booze it up as I can not stand any more pain-self inflicted or other wise....Might have a Bud Lite on the Beach at Christmas and a snort of Bailey's if I'm really cold in the winter.....mostly into fresh food prepackaged and chicken....Blood Mud is low and I need lubrication in the joints-so I have a Micky D's once a week if I remember....On the road I learned to keep it simple and easy to store....and of course remember if looks ar smells funny throw it out........geofkaye
....old saying....if you want a hole in the roof-just drill it and it will leak....drop a plastic conduit down the side/back/front of the rig and enter/exit cables through that....use a drip loop at each end.....or run it in a conduit bent 90 degrees back ways and add a tube of silicone as a final plug....with any luck the rain will be blowing the other way at a parking area and if it is bent backwards it won't leak when moving down the highway if your internal pressure is the same as the outside of the truck-with a air to air heat exchanger it will balance itself when moving.....geofkaye
Ran D. St. Clair
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2009
- Messages
- 212
Geofkaye,
How about sharing the web sites, brand names, dealers, etc. for those LED lights that you are talking about? They sound great, but a few clues would shorten the search a bit.
I looked up hhgrregg on the internet.
http://www.hhgregg.com/SubCata...iances&CatalogID=464
I did find free standing gas ranges as low as $315 and of course you can spend several times that if you want to. Everything I saw, be it free standing or slide in, gas or electric, was 30" wide, not the 22" or 17" that is common for RV's. I also didn't see anything relating to Propane or Natural Gas, so I assume they are set up for NG.
I know I converted a BBQ from propane to NG once and had to drill out the orifice to get adequate heat. That implies a smaller orifice would be needed when converting to propane. I believe NG standard pressure is quite a bit lower than the 11" of water (6.3 ounces per square inch) that is standard for propane. Conversion is probably entirely possible, and with widely available commercial units such as these the replacement orifices are probably readily available as well. Push come to shove, I would fill the brass orifice with solder and then drill it to whatever size I wanted.
If I hadn't already made my decision, and purchase, I might have done more research in this direction, and tried to fit the larger size. It would not surprise me if you get more quality and durability for the money in these units if for no other reason than due to the economies of scale. I have no way to know for sure without doing some driving, or spending some money, and it's too late for me now.
How about sharing the web sites, brand names, dealers, etc. for those LED lights that you are talking about? They sound great, but a few clues would shorten the search a bit.
I looked up hhgrregg on the internet.
http://www.hhgregg.com/SubCata...iances&CatalogID=464
I did find free standing gas ranges as low as $315 and of course you can spend several times that if you want to. Everything I saw, be it free standing or slide in, gas or electric, was 30" wide, not the 22" or 17" that is common for RV's. I also didn't see anything relating to Propane or Natural Gas, so I assume they are set up for NG.
I know I converted a BBQ from propane to NG once and had to drill out the orifice to get adequate heat. That implies a smaller orifice would be needed when converting to propane. I believe NG standard pressure is quite a bit lower than the 11" of water (6.3 ounces per square inch) that is standard for propane. Conversion is probably entirely possible, and with widely available commercial units such as these the replacement orifices are probably readily available as well. Push come to shove, I would fill the brass orifice with solder and then drill it to whatever size I wanted.
If I hadn't already made my decision, and purchase, I might have done more research in this direction, and tried to fit the larger size. It would not surprise me if you get more quality and durability for the money in these units if for no other reason than due to the economies of scale. I have no way to know for sure without doing some driving, or spending some money, and it's too late for me now.
...hhgregg has "apartment stoves" [about 24''] that are "RV size" without a drawer underneath the unite are both gas and electric under various names currently-just bought one for Fairfax#2 kitchen...it is electric with the MAYTAG name on it. probably made somewhere else and re-branded thich happens a lot these days.....I don't shop for much over the 'net ....I do business with suppliers direct-now in cash or credit card for an extra discount of at least the state tax stuff....if you want the best price i suggest you look at the wholesale side instead of retail currently they are eating their first born to stay alive....this miserable market has it's good side also......gas change over is changing the orifice which takes about 5 minuites after you find the propwer wrench in the tool box...sometimes you have to get a "kit" to do the change over-the dealer usually has it in stock or next day delivery by mail or UPS....
BlizzND
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
- Messages
- 300
Lowes has 20" gas stoves
link:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn...-GAK101OO&lpage=none
I had found the perfect unit for you a while back, I just can't find it, it was a sink/stove w/ a 10 gallon water tank combo, for under 300 bucks, I'll keep looking for you.
-blizz
link:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn...-GAK101OO&lpage=none
I had found the perfect unit for you a while back, I just can't find it, it was a sink/stove w/ a 10 gallon water tank combo, for under 300 bucks, I'll keep looking for you.
-blizz
BlizzND
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
- Messages
- 300
Found it! bit more than I remember..
link:
http://major-appliances.amroya...compact-kitchens.htm
blizz
link:
http://major-appliances.amroya...compact-kitchens.htm
blizz
...LED'S...huummm....Kevin Koyle at TecNiqInc.com has an interesting catalogue great designs prices are reasonable-I have used his stuff on a Trailer re-up worked rather well and owner kinda took to it well......Custer Products aka Al Hershberger at custerproducts.com has a reasonable line......Gorden Clark at ShermanPearson has a excellent group called Premier Lights-volume 2 is great for planning your install- I use 5200w a lot for uitility lites......GLO-BRITE IS GOOD FOR DESIGN STUFF-Call Neal or Judy in C.S. for help-buy in bulk-big discounts.......RickBrowning at JTBrowning throws deals....84205C strip lites are magic for pizzpoor lites in low areas Truck-Lite has them-called SUPERSTRIPS-about 12 LEDS......4'' super 61 diode are about $28.00 individually at Tuff-Led.com-great for the bathroom or over kitchen sink toilet stove etc.-bright as all hello!......Grote is the best stuff-but expensive and very abundant at any truckstop,but, I can't crack the price list-super nova line is the best looking IMHO......Truck-lite has a 81 series work lite that is LED-www.truck-lite.com........PHILLIPS has a PERMALITE in bulk#60-2200 and it is about 6"X18" -general/area lighting at .91 amps at 12 vdc-FANTASTIC LITE IMHO.....OPTRONICSINC.COM- where i first started with LEDS-price decreases as you go up in count....ARAHHA in MEXICO 52 444 8222434-IIRC.....STEVE BARNES
at GLO-Brite.com sends a CD with good stuff-pricing is negotiable now.....AMERICANSUPERLITE.COM has fancy things-I don't really know how to describe it-e-mail and get catalog ......and if you only want one there is always Iowa 80.com for a choke price .....these are referrals that I have used and will contunue because of the ease of doing business....anything else you are on your own.....If they want a business statement or to set up an account tell them good-by ...in the business world there is nothing like cash or a credit card as they have the money in their hand instantly......geof kaye for THE RIVERCITY GROUP....nitedudes!
Ran D. St. Clair
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2009
- Messages
- 212
Bliz, Now I have a huge case of buyers remorse because I really love that free standing range you found. I wonder if it is better quality than what I bought? Hopefully others will be able to take advantage cuz I have already spent way too much money lately, though at $348 it sure is tempting.
The micro kitchens are interesting and they might just be perfect for someone. I need a gas stove, not electric, oven, larger high efficiency fridge with a freezer, so they don’t work for me, but very cool. I didn’t see the 10 gallon water tank you mentioned. Did I miss it?
Geofkaye, man you really went all out on providing LED info. It will take me a while to research all that. Thanks dude!
The micro kitchens are interesting and they might just be perfect for someone. I need a gas stove, not electric, oven, larger high efficiency fridge with a freezer, so they don’t work for me, but very cool. I didn’t see the 10 gallon water tank you mentioned. Did I miss it?
Geofkaye, man you really went all out on providing LED info. It will take me a while to research all that. Thanks dude!
....take your time RAN D.......that is just some of the suppliers that I have used over the years...started looking at the LED issue in '01 when I got serious about building RV stuff and now that the market is flat lined ...the re-up business takes time...a lot of time to get it right!.....geof kaye and the 3-5 girls that do the work and only whine once a week for an hour or four......
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