I think the rule on "company graphics" and your motorhome being a commercial enterprise is like gasoline and lemonade ... one drop of gasoline spoils the whole bucket of lemonade. Putting your company name on the outside makes it a commercial vehicle ... CDL, DOT#, etc. etc. etc. Having NOTHING on the outside (clean, white) and using the "motorhome" in a trade or business ... you've cross the same line, only in a different spot.
Doc Weaver
Senior Member
you're in a grey area here. In Ohio, I was told that if I put my company name on it anywhere, it would have to be commercial. If you are trying make it a RV badge, you might slip through the grey area. It would need to mimick other RV badges. You might also need to have your title concur with your badges. Be careful, DOT loves grey areas. They use them to fine and detain your vehicle indefinitely when they are in a crabby mood.
I walk a fine line with my truck too, so I make sure not to aggravate the DOT. At night I even turn on the lights in the back when going by weigh stations, so they can see the light through the windows.
I use my truck for travel and shelter when I work out of town. I can carry my tools and motorcycle in the back, but I cannot carry ANYTHING that eventually would be sold. I now drop ship all the gear and keep my consumer status.
I walk a fine line with my truck too, so I make sure not to aggravate the DOT. At night I even turn on the lights in the back when going by weigh stations, so they can see the light through the windows.
I use my truck for travel and shelter when I work out of town. I can carry my tools and motorcycle in the back, but I cannot carry ANYTHING that eventually would be sold. I now drop ship all the gear and keep my consumer status.
Graphics
If you put the word "Racing" over the top or behind your company name will make it imply that you are using the vehicle for a non-commercial recreational activity. You may not be racing anything but the fuel gauge, but it could be a "support vehicle" for your hobby. Just putting your company name on the vehicle will put you in the commercial class. Make sure you post on the vehicle "Private Coach - Not for Hire". Keep a copy of the motorhome title handy and don't get caught using it on a commercial basis.
If you put the word "Racing" over the top or behind your company name will make it imply that you are using the vehicle for a non-commercial recreational activity. You may not be racing anything but the fuel gauge, but it could be a "support vehicle" for your hobby. Just putting your company name on the vehicle will put you in the commercial class. Make sure you post on the vehicle "Private Coach - Not for Hire". Keep a copy of the motorhome title handy and don't get caught using it on a commercial basis.
"racing" on the logo is an old dodge that is not such a good idea anymore. the dot generally considers racing to be a commercial activity on 2 premises: 1. you are racing for a purse, meaning you are compensated for your activity, meaning you are commercial. 2. virtually every "hobby racer" out there declares a "racing business" on his taxes so you can balance those winnings against the expenses of racing and not pay taxes on the winnings. My dot officer told me they even consider transporting "show" cars to be commercial if you can receive any sort of prize or tow money. Arguing semantics of the the fine points of your definition of racing vs. commercial with the dot cop on the roadside isn't a discussion you will win.
They got me while towing a 14' empty enclosed motorcycle trailer with my dually and a small company logo in the window of the truck. I tried to argue that it was just an ad for my business just like any grandma with a minivan and a sewing shop, but it didn't get me anywhere. I ended up several months and some fines later with a usdot number, a cdl (my other trailer is bigger), a medical card, a trucking company and a file cabinet full of dot paperwork to keep me legal. Company name on the side = commercial. And if you are over 10000# gvw = usdot number. End of story. Like the song said, "I fought the man, and the man won"
They got me while towing a 14' empty enclosed motorcycle trailer with my dually and a small company logo in the window of the truck. I tried to argue that it was just an ad for my business just like any grandma with a minivan and a sewing shop, but it didn't get me anywhere. I ended up several months and some fines later with a usdot number, a cdl (my other trailer is bigger), a medical card, a trucking company and a file cabinet full of dot paperwork to keep me legal. Company name on the side = commercial. And if you are over 10000# gvw = usdot number. End of story. Like the song said, "I fought the man, and the man won"
Doc Weaver
Senior Member
I think I may have told this before, but I will keep it short.
A gospel singer friend of mine got in an accident with their tour bus. The honest truth is that they use this bus to transport their family to the concerts.
The day after the wreck, he went down to check on the bus and there was DOT climbing all over the bus. They asked for his DOT number and he replied with "this is a family motorhome". Then DOT went through the bus and found a box of CDs. They asked if these were for sale, and he replied yes. Immediately DOT started with fines and orders for all the commercial requirements. That also got him in trouble with his insurance.
If you are going to walk the fine line, make sure you follow the rules or it could cost you severely.
A gospel singer friend of mine got in an accident with their tour bus. The honest truth is that they use this bus to transport their family to the concerts.
The day after the wreck, he went down to check on the bus and there was DOT climbing all over the bus. They asked for his DOT number and he replied with "this is a family motorhome". Then DOT went through the bus and found a box of CDs. They asked if these were for sale, and he replied yes. Immediately DOT started with fines and orders for all the commercial requirements. That also got him in trouble with his insurance.
If you are going to walk the fine line, make sure you follow the rules or it could cost you severely.
bushpilot-TC
Senior Member
excuse me ? i must be misunderstanding something in the above statement.
i dont know a single conversion coach or pusher that has a gvw under 20k.
Bob86ZZ4
Senior Member
Yes, but as long as it's an rv you don't need to follow commercial d.o.t. rules. As soon as you cross that line everything changes.
Bob86ZZ4
Senior Member
And d.o.t. rules don't take effect until you hit the magic 10k lbs gross combined weight. You could put whatever advertising you want all over your F350 and drive down the road all you want with no dot oversight. What is the gvwr on a F350? about 9600 lbs isn't it? Now, hook up a Home Depot folding trailer to it rated at 1000 lbs. max. You don't even have to put anything on the trailer (or in the bed of the truck for that matter) but now you've got over 10k lbs. gcwr. You got anything commercial going on, boom goes the dynamite. What if you have a Ranger p/u? what are they rated max? 6k lbs? Then hook up a nice flatbed trailer rated for 3500 lbs. You can put "Acme Muffler Shop" signs all over it and haul mufflers to car shows and sell them and anything you want. And there is no dot involved.
Now, you've got a truck conversion rated at 45k lbs. gvwr. Pulling a enclosed stacker trailer rated at 25k lbs. with your personal vehicle inside, and a boat. Absolutely nothing commercial about any of it. You don't even go to a craft show and sell a crochet trivit. You don't have any dot oversight. You're good to go.
But, here comes that "gray" line. You have a car you take to the race track. And the "Acme Muffler Company" gives you free muffler work if you'll put a sticker on your car (doesn't even have to be on the outside of the trailer, it's on the car inside the trailer). You run the car around the track for practice day. No racing, no timing, no prizes, no placing. Just practice. But, a DOT guy is watching you. And your a advertisement for Acme Muffler. So, you're operating in "furtherance of a commercial venture." DOT watches you put that car back in the trailer and drive out. Boom goes the dynamite. Busted. Unless you've got all the dot requirements followed that is. Which is highly unlikely. For one thing you can't have dot numbers on an rv. You're going to need weighted or apportioned plates. It goes on and on and on.
I've got a buddy that is a commercial vehicle enforcement officer. He told me to take the "Recreational Vehicle, not for hire" stickers off my doors because when they see those they figure you are for sure a commercial veh. I've left mine on because they were there when I bought it and I'm guessing the paint might have faded and it'll show that they were pulled off anyway. I am in no way commercial either, so I welcome the chance to be pulled over and prove such to anybody. I've driven almost 40k miles on mine, never been stopped or even attracted any police or dot attention as far as I know.
Now, you've got a truck conversion rated at 45k lbs. gvwr. Pulling a enclosed stacker trailer rated at 25k lbs. with your personal vehicle inside, and a boat. Absolutely nothing commercial about any of it. You don't even go to a craft show and sell a crochet trivit. You don't have any dot oversight. You're good to go.
But, here comes that "gray" line. You have a car you take to the race track. And the "Acme Muffler Company" gives you free muffler work if you'll put a sticker on your car (doesn't even have to be on the outside of the trailer, it's on the car inside the trailer). You run the car around the track for practice day. No racing, no timing, no prizes, no placing. Just practice. But, a DOT guy is watching you. And your a advertisement for Acme Muffler. So, you're operating in "furtherance of a commercial venture." DOT watches you put that car back in the trailer and drive out. Boom goes the dynamite. Busted. Unless you've got all the dot requirements followed that is. Which is highly unlikely. For one thing you can't have dot numbers on an rv. You're going to need weighted or apportioned plates. It goes on and on and on.
I've got a buddy that is a commercial vehicle enforcement officer. He told me to take the "Recreational Vehicle, not for hire" stickers off my doors because when they see those they figure you are for sure a commercial veh. I've left mine on because they were there when I bought it and I'm guessing the paint might have faded and it'll show that they were pulled off anyway. I am in no way commercial either, so I welcome the chance to be pulled over and prove such to anybody. I've driven almost 40k miles on mine, never been stopped or even attracted any police or dot attention as far as I know.
My 10k comment was geared towards all vehicles, not just rv's. So if your coach has a 20k gvw and you are using in "furtherance of a commercial venture" as Bob states above, you will need a usdot number and the whole 9. And you certainly can get a commercial and/or apportioned plate for an RV, as well as a usdot number. My cargo trailer is legitimately titled and licensed as a travel trailer (ohio-speak for a camping trailer) and I do have the usdot number on the truck towing it when I am using it for my business.
Now, all that said, if your rig has a big gaudy (no offense intended) black, tan and brown rv style paint job and looks just like any other snowbird rolling down the highway you're highly unlikely to ever get a second glance from any passing dot guy on the highway no matter what you have in back or in the storage bins. Skate your little heart out. But if it is a plain white renegade with a big 'ol stacker trailer, they are very suspicious of those rigs with good reason. Maybe we should call it profiling and get the aclu to file a class action case for us...
Now, all that said, if your rig has a big gaudy (no offense intended) black, tan and brown rv style paint job and looks just like any other snowbird rolling down the highway you're highly unlikely to ever get a second glance from any passing dot guy on the highway no matter what you have in back or in the storage bins. Skate your little heart out. But if it is a plain white renegade with a big 'ol stacker trailer, they are very suspicious of those rigs with good reason. Maybe we should call it profiling and get the aclu to file a class action case for us...
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