Looking at a E450

wadesgames · 06-25-2010, 08:40 AM

I am new to this forum and see lots of big rigs, I am looking at a E450 box with a 7.3 diesel. It has a living quarters in the box, I pull a 16 foot extra height v nose trailer. Is it enough truck? Would a double over drive make since? It has a 410 rear end, The truck has a sink and shower and gen box installed. I need to a bathroom, dinnete bed.

wadesgames · 06-29-2010, 04:41 PM

I have not bought yet what should I buy?

volvoman · 06-29-2010, 05:43 PM

what year is it? is it the old 7.3 or newer electronic engine? electronic power stroke would be better engine. either way it should be a good truck. make sure hitch is heavy duty. older engines are good for about 180,000 miles before needing head gaskets. last about 250,000 miles. newer engines go about 200,000 before they need injectors ($350.00 each). have customers with 300,000 miles and no problems.

wadesgames · 06-29-2010, 07:44 PM

Its a 2001 with 66k miles, I currently am using two gas pickups that only get 7 to 8 mpg pulling the trailer.

Doc Weaver · 06-29-2010, 08:54 PM

Wadesgames, I did some of the same evaluating when I upgraded to a Truck Conversion. I was using 16' Isuzu NPR box trucks. They are great around town, but suck over the road. That flat front is like pushing a garage door down the highway. After considering MPG, hotels, etc., It was more cost effective to build a 24' half truck, half RV, and live in it while on the road. I haven't done all the numbers, but I believe it paid for itself in two years. I think you're headed in the correct direction.

Doc Weaver

wadesgames · 06-29-2010, 09:55 PM

I like your truck and started looking at some bigger trucks,I worry about driving something that heavy across the church lawn, I do most of my setups on grass. Most of my work is within 200 miles of the house, but a place to cool off and take a shower after setting up is real attractive.

Doc Weaver · 06-30-2010, 08:26 AM

wadesgames,
I checked out your website. very cool! I deal with churches as well. I install sound and video in churches. Doesn't that trailer leave grooves in the grass? very cool business though.

Doc Weaver

oh and welcome

wadesgames · 06-30-2010, 12:03 PM

I went out today a drove a npr with a 14 foot box its pretty small, starting to think that I would like something larger, like yours so I could have a living quarters and the back as a garage for storage. With the truck and trailer does having the living quarters make it so I dont need a CDL.

Doc Weaver · 06-30-2010, 01:16 PM

The CDL is on weight. the GVW has to be under 26k lbs. Once you have water, cooking, and sleeping units installed, get it re-titled as a motor-home. Being titled as a motor-home does the following:
1) no more stops at weigh stations
2) cheaper insurance
3) no DOT numbers and inspections
4) no more paperwork and fuel taxes, etc.

check with your local authorities for any difference.

Doc Weaver

blizzardND · 06-30-2010, 03:36 PM

my 2 cents (you get what you pay for it):

I'd be very careful using something licensed as a motorhome / "not for hire" for something used for a commercial venture. You may get by all the scales and LEO's as a RV, but if you were to ever get in a serious accident, someones attorney is going to find out that it is actually a company owned and on the road for a commercial purpose (getting your equipment to/from the work site) and thus it should and better be insured as a commercial vehicle $$$.

Once the insurance card says its commercial I would think that the state issuing the plates would see both your commercial ownership XYZ Sound and Games LLC and the commercial insurance certificate, then apply the duck test, I think you will find that you are a duck and a CDL is required.

Even North Dakota where farmers can drive the most clapped out trucks on the road are getting busted daily for hauling for hire or barter, the neighbors grain, cattle or Farm equipment. Then the no CDL for farmers rule gets tossed and the tickets get expensive.

I'm starting to see more and more 1 ton pickups and service trucks around her with not only DOT numbers but annual safety inspection stickers on them. Not sure why but the bigger oil, wind tower and the coal companies must require them. It isn't the same oilfield I grew up in .
-blizz

Doc Weaver · 06-30-2010, 04:39 PM

Blizz. according to the state of ohio clerk of courts (I talked to her personally), My truck is owned by me and not the company. It is used for my travel and living when working out of town. It was her idea to re-title as a motor-home. It is no different than if I had bought a Winnebago for the same purpose. I am not hauling for anyone else.

There are other stipulations that are state to state. One in Ohio is that I cannot label my truck with any logos or company advertisements. That doesn't bother me. All that would do is make potential thieves believe there was something of value to steal in the truck.

As far as a CDL, if you are under 26,000lbs, a CDL is not required for personal or commercial driving. Some companies require it, but not DOT.

Doc Weaver

blizzardND · 06-30-2010, 09:37 PM

you maybe ok, but pulling a trailer that has a big company logo which is what Wadesgames has, (I would assume that he'd want to letter the box of the E450 also) would only help re-enforce the fact that he is a duck.

Our business Human Resources, Payroll and Benefits administration, our client companies are always asking can I scrimp by on this rule or that. We do not allow any creeping into gray, once you go gray, it seems like it takes 2 law firms making money and 1 judge that schedules you out about a year and half. Just to tell whether its legal or not. Most of these employeers gray rules can be proven illegal if its in the plaintiff (empoyees) favor. Usually some unemployed disgruntled former employee snivels out some piddly ass excuse to some sympathetic judge. Missed overtime pay, wrongful termination, company employee not contract labor and now wants his back taxes paid etc. He needs to feed his family and therefor evil company pays out.

I just see the same thing in the RV industry, too big of trailer behind too small of TV, accidents happen whose to to blame? Driver who was told that his truck can handle a 15K trailer? If an ambulance chaser looks at the accident photos and sees a big logo on the side of the trailer, does he go after the 100K auto policy or the 2 million dollar company umbrella?

2 cents, I understand cutting corners on recycled paper and toner cartridges, I do not cut corners on liability insurance.

If your company is incorporated, doesn't the truck, its insurance and expenses have to be in the name of the corporation to be a deductible biz expense?

lots to consider when we mix biz with pleasure...

good luck Wadsesgames with your decision, please take a few minutes to talk to your accountant and insurance rep before making a deposit.

blizz

blizz

wadesgames · 06-30-2010, 09:56 PM

All my trucks are not owned by the company, I only receive milage for their use. The logo trailer is a good question and I will look into it. I am not looking to bypass the rules, just need to know what rules to play by.

Doc Weaver · 07-01-2010, 08:08 AM

Now that's the trick: knowing the rules.

Blizz is right on the ambulance chasing lawyers. I've had my share of lawyers, insurance, people that can't drive, and government officials that don't know the law. This is why I want a bumper sticker that says "If you have FARMERS insurance stay 200yards away".

After meeting with local sheriff, BMV, ODOT, etc., I received completely different answers. It's hard to follow the rules when nobody knows the exact rules. Anyone who has dealt with DOT knows the rules can change with the officer's attitude. This is why I decided to call the Ohio Clerk of Courts to get an authoritative answer. I carry her paperwork with me in the truck AT ALL TIMES. Different states will have different rules. Check it out thoroughly!

Blizz, I definitely appreciate your opinion. Suffice it to say that I have taken care of myself and my business. I have three attorneys, two insurance companies, and married an accountant.

Anything I don't know for a fact, I let them take care of it. AS far as the ownership of vehicles, I personally own the truck and can deduct repairs, but not depreciation. After that, I would have to ask my wife.

Wadesgames, If you have logos and such on the trailer, you may very well have to do the commercial truck thing. Good luck on your journey for information. If it was anything like mine, you'll need some patience. I think it took months for get a straight answer.

Doc Weaver

wadesgames · 09-22-2010, 07:20 PM

I took the plunge and bought a 1997 Ford Super duty, it has a side door, insulated box,air and heat, large tommy lift. it was a mobile tool showroom, I am going the commercial route, got my physical and insurance.

Bob86ZZ4 · 09-23-2010, 06:57 AM

Cool Wade, sounds like a good route. I agree with the other posts. I'm a cop and know a couple state commercial vehicle enforcement officers. You don't want to mess with those guys. It will cost you more money to do the whole class A license and insurance and such. But, it will cost you a lot lot more if you get in trouble for not doing it all by the letter. One of the things they love is the trailer being too heavy for the tow veh. And rightly so, there are huge dangers to other motorists from people pulling too heavy.

Doc Weaver · 09-23-2010, 08:45 AM

Some friends of mine just got into an accident with their converted bus. It destroyed the other vehicle (which was at fault)and did $53k worth of damage to the bus. my friend went to the bus the next morning to see DOT "climbing all over it". They looked in the bays to see the CDs the band sells. They reasoned that if you carry anything that will be exchanged for money, then you are commercial. He now has to get DOT, FMCSA, GDOT numbers, CDL, pay taxes to any state he travels through etc. Seems to me it would be easier to ship the CDs. All we carry are tools. We ship the gear we sell.

wadesgames · 09-24-2010, 02:32 PM

I talked to to one of the dot for SC guys. the gvw of the truck is 15,000 and the trailer is under 10,000 so I dont need a CDL. He said all I needed was a dot physical and did not need a special drivers licence. I bought commerial insurance it was $480 pfor 6 months.

Bob86ZZ4 · 09-24-2010, 09:09 PM

Good deal. After you get done (or maybe during) building it out you might want to get it weighed to make sure you don't go over that 15k. I'm guessing you won't load the trailer over 10k but couldn't hurt to weigh that too. Because if you overload it and get in an accident, big trouble. Scales are cheap at the big truck stops.

wadesgames · 09-25-2010, 07:03 AM

I was thinking of weighing next week to see how much it is before I start playing around adding stuff. I want to add under storage and generator box soon. ordered a tailer hitch yesterday. Still making my mind up on the toilet, the reveiws on the insenalet were mixed.

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