toad brakes?!

[THUNDERUSONE]

Originally Posted by petrel

Ok, that is what I figured. So my concerns are not unwarranted.

Do you have someone with a light truck standing by to launch for you, or do you use a lift to put the boat in the water?

Sometimes I can launch with the Motorhome. Most of the time we are doing poker runs and I have bud's with duallys to help me launch. My girlfriend can drive the chit out of the Motorhome but launching that boat on a steep ramp with the meritor tranny is a me only deal. She can't drive the boat (yet) so I have an additional delimma to work around. 2200hp with full stagger in the wind can be a handful around the docks. A lot can happen fast.

[petrel]

I figured adding the TC to the launching/loading equation would add another layer of complexity. Thanks for the insights.

[samcrimm]

Petrel, people with rigs like ours are special in a lot of ways,if you have not noticed.
Sam

[petrel]

Yep! A pleasantly unique bunch.

[hot rod]

Thunder, you need more toys.

[Bob86ZZ4]

I pull an enclosed trailer with a car and toys. All the points bushpilot made are true. I would like to be able to flat tow a toad once in awhile but don't want to spend the money for the equipment, and I don't think I have a car that can be flat towed.

One nice thing about the enclosed trailer. I set my brake controller almost to nothing since my truck brakes are quite adequate to stop it all. But I do have the comfort of knowing that the break-away brakes are there to satisfy the law, and the lawyers.

Back to the brake question. What about those units that sit on the floor of the toad and hook a rod up to the brake pedal? Those look pretty neat. I think they're radio controlled or something?

[tgdameron]

I have the Blue Ox Patriot that sits on the floor and has a wireless controller to set the gain as needed. I tow either my '09 Honda CR-V or '15 Jeep Grand Cherokee so the unit moves between them. I use a charge line from the coach to the car to keep the batteries charged. Before the I bought the Renegade I really needed the unit to help stop the other RVs I owned as their brakes were not sufficient for the added weight. As was said above, I now use it to keep legal in all states. The key points are you probably need to add a battery charge line to keep the towed vehicle battery charged on those 600 - 800 mile days and the peace of mind that should it break away from the coach its brakes will be applied.

[bushpilot]

Originally Posted by Bob86ZZ4

.... What about those units that sit on the floor of the toad and hook a rod up to the brake pedal? Those look pretty neat. I think they're radio controlled or something?

i have the brakebuddy vantage (red box), sits on the floor of the toad (our jeep wrangler).

you CAN run it w/out a remote
and you DONT necessarily have to have the break-a-way connected (some minor additional wiring).

the breakbuddy (classic, vantage & vantage select models), & the blueox (patriot) all work the same way - via an inertia or pendulum type switch (like many brake controllers).

the REMOTES for the BrakeBuddy & Patriot have remotes to indicate when their activated and so you can change the "gain".

I've pulled our toad more 24hr straight (either w/out stopping or w/out disconnecting while we slept in a rest areas) and never had a problem starting the jeep.

[petrel]

Out of the blue, my dw orders herself a used jeep through Carmax as a toad. Assuming the sale goes through, I am back in the toad business again! I've only got three weeks to get it rigged too.

After revisiting the topic, I am more confused than before. I've taken another hard look at SMI and M&G Air systems. After some back and forth, each agreed that I did not need any special rigging on my MH to attach their systems to a coach. This puts them at the top of my list.

A couple of things I still don't understand. Why install auxiliary lighting on the toad? Can't the existing lights just be wired up like trailer lights, maybe with some sort of disconnect from the toad's panel? Do most folks also use the charge circuit in the 7-pin to keep up the toad battery too?

I don't understand why the toad air brake manufacturers don't make a brake system that utilizes the truck air system better, allowing the trailer supply line to pressurize the toad system's break away pressure tank, so the system can just break away and respond to the drop in pressure like a semi-trailer does, rather than having an electronic break away switch? I know the toad doesn't have spring brakes, but the break away systems are supposed to use an air reservoir to engage the brakes.

Lastly, regarding base plates and towing bars, I contacted my two closest Blue Ox dealers. One marked up each component $100.00 over retail and then needs 5 hours at $115.00 per hour to install it. The other, just quoted retail price, but wanted 9 hours at $155.00 per hour. I'm thinking a little youtube and a lot of sweating and cursing and I'll get it done myself.

I must be really missing something. If you've got the time, please set me straight. Thanks

[bushpilot]

Originally Posted by petrel

After revisiting the topic, I am more confused than before. I've taken another hard look at SMI and M&G Air systems. After some back and forth, each agreed that I did not need any special rigging on my MH to attach their systems to a coach. This puts them at the top of my list.

Every toad is gonna need SOME rigging - including base plates and wiring for lighting.

You don't say what Jeep she bought (i have a jeep wrangler / toad).

Originally Posted by petrel

A couple of things I still don't understand. Why install auxiliary lighting on the toad? Can't the existing lights just be wired up like trailer lights, maybe with some sort of disconnect from the toad's panel? Do most folks also use the charge circuit in the 7-pin to keep up the toad battery too?

the coach (7-pin) wiring needs SOME place to connect to on the jeep/toad.

You have one of 3 choices:

Choice #1:

Use Magnetic (slap-on) lights and deal w/ routing the wiring in/out of the toad to the 7 pin (coach) connector.

You may need a 4pin to 7pin adapter for some of those magnetic lights.
They make the lights in wireless now too

Choice #2:

Add additional bulbs (wiring and diodes) inside the Jeep/Toad's factory tail lights.
or SPLICE into the factor tail light (again, wiring, diodes & plugs) - with a kit HERE

the wiring will give you a plug (at the front of the jeep / toad) which will provide you with a connection point to the 7-pin (coach) connector.

OPTION 3 (i did this one):

Use a factory supplied harness, which plugs in behind the glove box (jeep wranglers). The Factory harness comes w/ a 7-pin (coach) cord/connection & puts a plug behind the jeep wrangler grill.



I modified the jeep harness a little (adapting it to a 6 pin round connector) and moved it UNDER the bumper (i can't leave well enough alone).

Originally Posted by petrel

I don't understand why the toad air brake manufacturers don't make a brake system that utilizes the truck air system better, allowing the trailer supply line to pressurize the toad system's break away pressure tank, so the system can just break away and respond to the drop in pressure like a semi-trailer does, rather than having an electronic break away switch? I know the toad doesn't have spring brakes, but the break away systems are supposed to use an air reservoir to engage the brakes.

this is EXACTLY why i didn't go air over hydraulic (from coach to jeep/toad), and trust me i wanted air actuated brakes, but i didn't want to have to add an air tank etc.

the brake away system for the "electric" boxes (that sit on the drivers floor) have a much LESS complicated break away system, 2 wire switch, that connects to the brake buddy (or patriot etc) box, if the (break away) cable/switch is pulled the circuit is closed and the brakes on the toad activate....it was SIMPLE to wire....AND it's easy to remove (when/if i sell the toad).

Originally Posted by petrel

Lastly, regarding base plates and towing bars, I contacted my two closest Blue Ox dealers. One marked up each component $100.00 over retail and then needs 5 hours at $115.00 per hour to install it. The other, just quoted retail price, but wanted 9 hours at $155.00 per hour. I'm thinking a little youtube and a lot of sweating and cursing and I'll get it done myself.

I must be really missing something. If you've got the time, please set me straight. Thanks

I installed my own base plates, i think i had to drill 2 holes - and it might have taken me 1/2 a day to install the base plates (i went slow)...and now knowing what i know i could probably do it in 2 hours.

I found a Blue Ox (aluminum) Aventa tow-bar & base plates for my Jeep Wrangler for 250 bucks on craigslist. I just picked up a roadmaster tow-bar for a friend on craigslist (no baseplates) for 250 bucks, take your time, search craigslist & eBay.

even if you have to buy the baseplates new, and get the tow-bar off of craigslist you'll be LOTS of money ahead.

[petrel]

Wow, thanks so much for all the information. She hopes to purchase an '08 Wrangler Unlimited "X" 4-door. I like the wiring harness option.

Yes, I refuse to alter the truck's air system. After sending SMI a photo of my truck's tractor protection valve, they agreed that their onboard system would not be necessary. However, it remains to be seen if they will be willing to sell me a system sans their coach air protection system, and stand behind it.

It looks like I can remove the 1/4" male quick disconnect from their air line and replace it with a glad hand for the service side. Then rig up another glad hand with a plug to block the supply line. If I have a toad airline break, or a true break away, the TPV will take care of any leak down and maintain truck brake control.

Thanks again for your help.

[bushpilot]

Originally Posted by petrel

Wow, thanks so much for all the information. She hopes to purchase an '08 Wrangler Unlimited "X" 4-door. I like the wiring harness option.

your X is the same as the current (and my) sport.

the good news - youre in luck, that Mopar harness part number 82211156AB works on the 2007+

you'll have a sightly unique issue w/ the (pre-2009) wranglers. pre-09's have a steering wheel (column) that locks.....those models have to have a key in the ignition (turned on) to keep the steering wheel unlocked (while towing).

You'll need to pull a fuse (its marked) to disable the ignition system (to prevent draining of the battery (because the key is on) while towing.

after mid 2009 Mopar removed the Wrangler Steering wheel locks (because they know so many folks tow them as toads).

read the owners manual, you'll want to keep the auto transmission or manual transmission gear box IN GEAR or PARK when towing....of course the Transfer case is placed in NEUTRAL while towing.

Originally Posted by petrel

It looks like I can remove the 1/4" male quick disconnect from their air line and replace it with a glad hand for the service side. Then rig up another glad hand with a plug to block the supply line. If I have a toad airline break, or a true break away, the TPV will take care of any leak down and maintain truck brake control.

couldn't you just run a dummy glad-hand shut-off on the unused side?

I think i have 2 extra if youre interested in them (cheap), you pay shipping.

I run these on both sides at the back of our coach to prevent any leak down at the trailer couplers....I've been known to use the trailer brake activation handle (when I'm lazy) to shut off the cruise control or give a little taillight / brake check to anyone who's following me a bit too close.

Originally Posted by petrel

Thanks again for your help.

Anytime!

[petrel]

Heck, I think I already have those. I thought they were just to keep the grime out. Did not know they would hold pressure.

The mopar wiring harness is in my Amazon shopping cart!

[samcrimm]

I'll buy your extra glad hands!

Sam

Originally Posted by bushpilot

your X is the same as the current (and my) sport.

the good news - youre in luck, that Mopar harness part number 82211156AB works on the 2007+

you'll have a sightly unique issue w/ the (pre-2009) wranglers. pre-09's have a steering wheel (column) that locks.....those models have to have a key in the ignition (turned on) to keep the steering wheel unlocked (while towing).

You'll need to pull a fuse (its marked) to disable the ignition system (to prevent draining of the battery (because the key is on) while towing.

after mid 2009 Mopar removed the Wrangler Steering wheel locks (because they know so many folks tow them as toads).

read the owners manual, you'll want to keep the auto transmission or manual transmission gear box IN GEAR or PARK when towing....of course the Transfer case is placed in NEUTRAL while towing.



couldn't you just run a dummy glad-hand shut-off on the unused side?

I think i have 2 extra if youre interested in them (cheap), you pay shipping.

I run these on both sides at the back of our coach to prevent any leak down at the trailer couplers....I've been known to use the trailer brake activation handle (when I'm lazy) to shut off the cruise control or give a little taillight / brake check to anyone who's following me a bit too close.





Anytime!

[bushpilot]

Originally Posted by samcrimm

I'll buy your extra glad hands!

Sam

Sam the extra set i have are like the ones Petrel has in his picture.

Are you in a hurry? Im backed up at work & heading to a race in oklahoma tomorrow night...can it wait til monday?

[samcrimm]

No hurry on the glad hands

Sam

[petrel]

Fwiw, I went with the M&G air brakes, the mopar harness bush pilot recommended, and a blue ox baseplate and avail towbar. About 5000 miles so far. I like the simplicity of the air brakes and the ease of hooking the whole thing up. Really hate not being able to back up with the toad on!