Manual trannie user questions.

Warpath · 08-14-2003, 01:19 PM

I have a Fuller 10 speed in my 95 FLD120 with 538,000 miles on it. Looking at the maintenance records this is the original clutch & trannie with only adjustments and PM completed on them.

Here is my questions.
#1: In the first say 10 miles, shifting is as smooth as butter and no vibration. After that the tranny seems to really tighten up and shifts become much harder and I seem to get a vibration above 1400 rpm in all gears except 10th. Is this normal or not?

#2: What is the life of a trannie & clutch?

I know I have a clutch issue and it may just be adjustment, but under hard acceleration I have had it slip & shutter for just a short moment. But it is not consistent and I can't get to happen all of the time in the same situation as it had done it before.

Next, I have done alot of research on trannies if replacement or major repair is in my future. Really my only somewhat economical automatic would be a reman Allison HT740 which is clunky at 4 speeds and I would have to change my rear-end gears to get speeds above 55mph. Cost without having a core, would be above $10,000. So that is out in my book. Next would be to go to a Allision World Trannie which would be 6 speed auto, but since a re manufactured unit is rare your talking big money $25,000 +. Way out. I really love floating the gears (when the trannie is working properly) and I think it would take the fun out of having the thing if is was full auto. Semi-Auto is out no one will retro a used truck with this trannie. So I looked at a reman "Super 10" which is almost the same $ as reman 10 speed, but it cuts the shifting in half with a air shift between each gear. And since I start in 3rd now, 4th on a slight decline, your talking 4 lever movements which would be very cool. Anyone out there have or used this trannie and how do you like it.

I ask these questions, because I have nothing to compare my current rig to nor do I have past experience in another truck to compare it to. Also, when I head off to these truck service guys they look at me like I am a freak. They tell me some vibration is normal (and I am not talking like I feel a slight vibration in my case, it shakes the cab) but they feel you should just run the mother. I guess the trucking industry is a different world. I just like everything to run 100%

And lastly my rig does not have a engine brake, I looked into adding this and it would be in the $4500 range through Cummins direct. I decided to check into a Pac Brake and it is under $1000 installed. I am looking to limit the braking I am having to do on long descents as well as back road hill country. Any one using a Pac Brake?(exhaust brake) How do you like it?

Bill

2003 28' Show Hauler Motorhome on a 1995 FL 120 www.showhauler.com

Jim Gehlen · 08-14-2003, 07:51 PM

Bill: On my 98, after I bought it in Salt Lake City, the clutch was fine all the way to Caspar, WY, then to Denver and on the way back to SLC I picked up a vibration about the same as you mentioned.

What happened was is that there are 4 hevy duty springs on the clutch plate and two of them had broke causing the vibration while in 8-10th gear and also making it creep while in gear at stop signs, etc.

Took the truck to a transmission shop in SLC where they diagnosed it and had a new clutch installed in 3 hours. Parts and labor were about $1600.

The clutch life depends a great deal on the driver. Some may last forever or as little as 100K. If the operator kept his foot on the clutch pedal the 100K applies.

Will you be thinking about Wichita next year?
Bring your truck for show and tell please.

Patrick · 08-15-2003, 07:26 AM

Warpath, I had a Pac-Brake on my POS Class A. It worked good and saved the brakes but I hear the effective braking compared to a true Jake is about half. Is there more than just pedal adjustment on your clutch? That'd be cool if you could adjust it like top fuel dragsters do.

Doug · 08-15-2003, 09:43 AM

I would guess you need to have the clutch looked at; it is probably slipping. With that many miles, I am guessing it has been adjusted many a time and will need to be R&R. If at all close to being out of adjustment range, I wuold do that.
As for the shudder, etc - it may be related to the clutch, so I would try the clutch stuff first, but I would head off to the closest Fuller shop (probably any decent truck dealer) and have that examined if the clutch stuff doesn't address it.
Retro-fitting anything is a PIA, but the Jake is probably a better deal. I would consider looking at what other work could be done at the same time while they are dinking arund with the heads, and doing it all at once. It boggles my mind that someone would have ordered an OTR truck without a Jake, although I have seen it before. It has never made sense to me.

Warpath · 08-15-2003, 10:45 AM

As for the Pac or Jake, I am only at 30,000 lbs and thus only need a little help in holding speed, I know the Jake would be better, but I have a feeling I am going to be plunking down some $ in the clutch &/or trannie. Pac is on order, I'll let you know how it works out.

The FL dealer I have had the truck to before as been very fair on parts & labor costs. It goes in next week for check-up.

2003 28' Show Hauler Motorhome on a 1995 FL 120 www.showhauler.com

Doug · 08-15-2003, 12:14 PM

One thing I saw that is disappointing. Looking at the roadranger website, I see that the Lightning is only available up to a 1650 lb torque rating, but the autoshift 10 speed (which is based on another transmission) is available up to 1850. Grr. Given that I am more inclined to a C15 now (both brakesaver and Jake available), I would probably need the additional capacity.

Don in E Texas · 08-15-2003, 02:03 PM

Large truck clutches actually are two clutches. One is used when the vehicle is not moving - select gear to go forward/reverse and the pedel is depressed all the way to the floor. The other clutch is used for shifting - the clutch pedel does not go all the way down to the floor -if it does, you are wearing out one part of the clutch. Only takes 1/3 - 1/2 depression of the pedal to operate the clutch to shift gears. Takes someone with knowledge of these beasts to properly adjust them. I'm sure once you have your truck serviced, they will know what the problem is.

There are also lub points and oil levels that are important.

my $.02

onezman · 08-19-2003, 12:12 PM

Warpath,

I would first have the clutch and clutch brake adjusted. At the same time I would change the transmission and rear axle lube installing synthetic lube. Those may not have been chage for maybe 300K miles.

When the tranny is drained, look at the condition of the old fluid. Examine the magnetic drain plug. Transmissions and rear axles will actually grind up metal particals into a powder which will attach to the drain plug.

The mechanic should be able to tell you pretty much what condition your transmission is in from drain information alone.

I doubt if you need a reman transmission, but if you do, I recommmend the Super 10 transmission. If you start off in 3rd or 4th gear, you will only have 3 lever shifts. Super 10s are much easier to master than straight 10s. Half your shifts are just button shifts then.

You can't beat a Jake, but I wouldn't spend that kind of money to get one. If your service brakes are in good shape, you should be able to get by easily just using them.

onezman

geof · 08-19-2003, 10:22 PM

I send off my oil samples to Blackstone Labs once a year for an analsys...$16.00 and $1.75 for postage..geof-near Cincinnati

Warpath · 08-20-2003, 08:31 AM

The truck is at the FL dealer now. I know the Jake is the best, but at the weight I am at and what I am looking for the Pac is a good fit for the $. That is getting installed today.

They are checking the clutch & trannie and if nothing else will adjust and replace fluids in the trannie with synthetic. (I actually would have done this myself, but since I need them to cover things I figure they will have to check this anyway)

They are replacing the clutch adjustment rod which has ball joints that are fried and make a heck of rattling noise. I also have a low coolant warning light that is going off and I have tried adding fluid and taking some away and it still comes on. So they will look at this as well.

I will update you with what they find in a day or so.

Bill

2003 28' Show Hauler Motorhome on a 1995 FL 120 www.showhauler.com

Warpath · 08-27-2003, 08:59 AM

I picked up the truck last night.

The clutch was just a adjustment, new linkage, and some vibration isolators that had worn out. I almost stalled it when I started out due to the different engagemnt position. It works great and I am really happy with that. The only problem (minor) is the new adjustment linkage they put in rattles pretty loud at 1200 + RPM so I need to fix that.

The only thing they did to the trannie was replace the old fluid with synthetic and replace the rubber isolaters on the shifter. I still have the vibration at 1400 plus rpm's but you really only notice it in 9th and that is only when you are driving in that gear, not shifting through it. So I am pretty happy.

I spoke to the owner of the FL dealer, he did the test drive and he said the thing drives like a Cadillac and for a truck with 1/2 million miles on it handled like it was new. He also reminded me that it is a truck, not a mini van. I think I sometimes try to tweak things just a little to far. BTW he loved the front air suspension and the he mention that the Gear Master made it easy to figure out where the shift points where on this engine/trannie combo.

Last week I picked up a 2000 F-350 duelly w/ Powerstroke deisel and I can say the Show Hauler definetly has a smoother ride.

Now for the Pac Brake. Two thumbs up here. It is perfect for this application. I only had one steep grade to really test it, but it worked perfect. I would normally have to hit the top of the hill at 35 mph and brake all of the way down. (There is a stop about 100 yards after it flattens out) This time I hit it at 45 in 9th and never touched the brakes other than to make a normal stop. I did test it on some small hills in the highway which would usually require one stab of the brakes to stop from going over 65 and again it slowed me up just perfect. The other nice thing is the only noise you hear is a air hissing noise, so I am sure I am good around those no engine brake areas.

I guess all I have left to do now is run the sucker.

Bill

2003 28' Show Hauler Motorhome on a 1995 FL 120 www.showhauler.com

Patrick · 08-27-2003, 09:52 AM

Bill, is there a way to run a spring (like a throttle return spring or the like) from one end of the where the linkage mounts to the other? That should eliminate the rattle and premature wear.

Warpath · 09-03-2003, 10:48 AM

I fixed the rattle by adding a rubber bushing, worked great. This past weekend I got a chance to run some hills in S.W. PA. The exhaust brake worked perfectly. Just the right amount of braking, this really decreased the number of times I had to use the service brakes. (Alot less brake dust on the rims)

I also got to put the Gear Master through it's paces on some back roads where up & down shifting was a plenty and man it really made shifting nice. Up shifting is not a big deal, but down shifting on crazy up hills where you loose 2 + gears, it really made me look like a pro.

Everything is working perfectly, now I can get back to some upgrades. I am adding some horns to the cab roof, new cab marker lights, and some LED's in the front air dam.

Bill

2003 28' Show Hauler Motorhome on a 1995 FL 120 www.showhauler.com

geof · 09-03-2003, 09:31 PM

Bill-look at the new fire trucks and ambulances....all the airhornes are bumper height or maybe car driver height.[>5'-0"]....there is a reason for that.....with the radios and sound systems up loud these days this is an attention getter.....I have ambulance electronic horns on all three of my vehilcles...believe me-that gets everone's attention....it's legal and cheap....'specially of you don't have an air supply handy....geof-Near Cincinnati

Warpath · 09-04-2003, 06:32 AM

I actually am going for the look over the actual functionality. They should be able to hear me with 4 air horns (2 - 18" & 20" under the hood & 2 30" on the cab roof)

2003 28' Show Hauler Motorhome on a 1995 FL 120 www.showhauler.com

Jack Mayer · 09-04-2003, 03:59 PM

Bill,

The stainless on the bumper looks great. Might have to do that on my Volvo if I can find any. I assume that was a pre-cut kit for the FL? Where did you get it?

Jack

Jack Mayer
F550 Centurion Conversion
36' Newmar Kountry Star 5er

Warpath · 09-04-2003, 06:14 PM

The chrome bumper insert & bug sheild are from Alliance through Frieghtliner. I am pretty sure Alliance make chrome for all of the truck mfg'ers. I am really happy with both (top quality)

2003 28' Show Hauler Motorhome on a 1995 FL 120 www.showhauler.com

Gary Atsma · 09-04-2003, 07:44 PM

Hey Warpath!
Wanna REALLY get someone's attention? Two words: TRAIN HORNS. Get the real article, too, not the fake ones they sell in truck stops. Mount 'em on the frame rail behind the front bumper; don't worry, they'll be heard! All the feed commodity haulers around here have them. One blast-everybody looks!
Take care! Gary

tom · 09-08-2003, 10:30 PM

Jack
stengle brothers in pa they have chome bumpers $471+75 freight.I destroyed my fiberglass in my front yard. they have a website.

Tom

1998 volvo 420 volvo engine 425 hp 450k miles,3 axles overall length is 25' I have four wheeler behind cab

Jack Mayer · 09-11-2003, 11:41 AM

Tom if you could post the url to the web site it woul dbe very helpful. Various Google searches yeilded nothing.

Anyone else have any bumper sources???

Jack Mayer
1999 Volvo 610, 182" wb, ISM 400/1450
36' Newmar Kountry Star 5er

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