Insulation and Construction

[butlermotorcoaches]

A few of you were talking about insulaion and construction. Here are pics of the toterhome we are doing now with the 2" styrofoam insulation. We also put a heat chase in the floor to help heat the basement.
Ironically all of the items brought up are things that I feel I have addressed on our new design.
On our new garage units I have come up with a way to have a 26" load height yet make it so the garage area can be used as a bedroom if you want to simply use the truck for a motorhome, a dual purpose application.








Randy
sales@butlermotorcoaches.com

[KAYE RIVERCITY]

......well first rip out the Styrofoam and use Polyisocynate board or spray for starters/glue it in place and then fill any gaps with spray can foam....OR just use a SPF system to do the job.....styrofoam is about a <R-4 per inch and squeeks when the coach moves unless wrapped in polyethylene which wears out....SPF does not powder/squeek or make deadly fumes when it burns and will add considerably to the strength of the structure-it is a relative of epoxy glue and has a blowing agent added to make it foam along with a fire retardent chemicle....far superior to styrofoam....is runs retail about a $1.00 per board foot with a R- factor of 7+.....So 2" will more than make the coach into a superinsulated structure-allowing for less A/C and Heat...FYI geof

[butlermotorcoaches]

Geof,
There are pros and cons to every product. Styrofoam will only squeek or wear if it moves, fit it tight and apply PL 300 ,spray foam any gaps and edges, build a truck that has some structural integrity and I feel those issues are covered. The deadly fumes while burning is a concern, I have the same issue with my concrete house if it ever catches on fire. Unlike my hose we do not run any electrical wires through the walls to come in contact with the Styrofoam so I have eliminated that part in the motorhomes.

Johns Mansville foil faced board works very well, an inch has a R value of 6.5. I actually like this product the best but most customers request the Styrofoam. This is the product that I put in my personal truck.

Touch 'n seal is a spray product we have used for years on our Evolution because of the trucks contoured walls having varied thickness. While this is an excellent product because of it's R value, containing no formaldehyde, being flame retardent and adding structual integrity there are also some negatives to the product. On the down side is the fact it has a ton of isocyanates in it, has a very short shelf life and anytime you break the seal you have 24 hours to use the product in its entirity or you throw it away. It hurts to throw a $250 box away after only using a small part of it.

The problem with most manufacturers is they have a wall that is only capable of holding an inch of insulation. This results in the maximum R value of 7 if they used the best insulating product out.
Bead board and fancy looking bubble wrap just seam to fall short of what is needed. When I'm parked in the mountains snowmobiling I need some serious insulation, it gets real cold at 9000'.

Randy

[KAYE RIVERCITY]

.....contact Barry Culp at North Carolina Foam Industries and let him put a small SPF system together for you...very little waist....less than $25k and you can use it any where you want- any time you want and even do other coach/trailer builders stuff and make a big profit....newer foams are fantastic and you can do a whole coach in about 3 hours with a little practice.....I did my tractor bu hand with iso board and foam cans took 2 days and 30 cans....good thing my friend is a mgr at Home Depot.....keep us posted on your new unites....I'm still hot for that red and white T2000....[next life]....geof

[KAYE RIVERCITY]

.....that was "waste"....Barry will laugh at that one!....A dealer of his did my superinsulated house.....$4000 in insulation and less than $100 a month for heat and A/C...my neighbors are around $400 a month....and me and the dog don't live at any 68 degrees in winter.....geof

[butlermotorcoaches]

Geof:
Thanks for the info, I'll do a little checking to see what I can find. That red and white truck now lives in Custer Wa. pulling a RV. I could always build another and put a rear slideout in it for you, you'd be the first in Ohio with one.
Randy

[Warpath]

There are always going to be customers who require increased insulation for severe weather applications.

But to put this whole insulation debate into prospective; the majority of owners are not going to pay for the increased cost and the lose of interior space that a thick insulation is going to require. Remember inches are like feet in a conversion and customers are cramming every inch with something to maximize the living space. Also the majority of owners are not living in these units full-time and many only use them on a occasional basis during the winter months. The standard 30,000 BTU furnace that is supplied in most conversion will cook you out of the thing no matter how cold it is outside and it doesn't cost you that much to run. And on the opposite side of the temp gauge I never had a bit of trouble with (2) 13,500 BTU A/C units cooling my rig down and keeping it that way in 100 plus degree heat, again not costing a whole lot to run.

Bill

[butlermotorcoaches]

Bill:
I feel you are correct on part of the insulation debate but the reason I believe insulation is so critical is two fold. Heating and cooling is only one part, the second part is noise deadening, and that seems to be a concern for everyone. It is amzazing how much quieter these trucks are when we cram them full of insulation. The cost is minimal.
Randy

[KAYE RIVERCITY]

.....yeah....listening to the neighbors kids in the AM when I sleep to 11AM isn't what I will tolorate very long till I loose the dog to quiet things down-he can bark continously at about 90 barks a minuite on signal.....so the neighbors get the message very quickly.....if they don't the park managements figures out the solution....hehehehe....With 2 inches of insulation in each wall and ceiling at a R-15 value alone you can have quite a party with 1-2 working girls till about 3 AM without bothering the neighbors[or having to invite them]....That still leaves 8'-2" for living space and an exceedingly comfortable coach/trailer/tractor...weather changes and hot and cold spots are eliminated....Florida Kilowatt was about $.10 cents last year-I'm sure it will be more this year-as it is on a ever increasing cost anyway....As for the quietness factor I can carry on normal conversation with both Jennifer-with Michelle in the bunk-at 70mph in 10th. At least till Michell starts snoring....You guys going to be at Louisville in Novenber and December for the RV show?....geof

[Warpath]

Randy that is a good point, and I guess you really need to look at the construction of the coach.

Most of my experience is with Show Hauler and since they use 5/16" strand board on their steel structure before they apply there bubble insulation and then furring strips and then interior walls. So I had no trouble with sound or insulation.

But since there are so many different build techniques, insulation could play a key roll in deadening sound and keeping the temp just right inside.

Bill

[butlermotorcoaches]

Bill:
I was wondering if you do do me a favor. Would it be possible for you to take a tape measure and check to see what the finished interior width is in you truck. I have never checked a Showhauler. I've been doing my so the finished interior is 96" and I guess you made me curious as to what others have.
Thanks
Randy

[Warpath]

Randy -

Unfortunetly, I just sold my 2003 about 2 weeks ago and the new one will not be done until Feb or March.

I am sure one of the other Show Hauler owners could get that measurement.

Bill