Holding tanks

[andyg]

I was reading about Kenn's build in the "Frame Welding" has reminded me of an issue with my coach. For some reason NRC used equal sized tanks for the black and gray water. Most people produce much more gray water then black. The RVs I have been around always had a larger gray water tank. When using my toter last summer I did have trouble with the gray tanks filling up while the black was nearly empty. Changing tanks would not be practical. I'm thinking about rigging an overflow from the gray into the black tank. Has anyone else done this?

[bushpilot]

my haul mark is basically the same - 60 gallons each if i recall
strange cause ive got 210g capacity of fresh water

ive heard suggested that some folks "leak" their GRAY water down (after dark)...
ive done it (w/ permission) when ive camped in my brother in laws drive way...he was happy to have the water for his lawn.

I also do it when i "camp" on the curb at my parents and in-laws
*I* know my gray water is CLEAN...nothing but soapy water - so its really not a big deal.

I'd be concerned that an overflow could allow odors (and waste) to escape into the gray tank

[hot rod]

I seem to remember or misremember from blizzardnd's build that his gray water tank has a pump to transfer gray water over to the black water tank to dump. Just wire in a demand pump on a switch to transfer. I don't think I'd want just an overflow pipe as I would think you would get odor and possibly backwash from the black tank.

I'm not a fan of dumping gray water on the ground, but I know a lot of guys do. Our trailer only gets gray water from the bathroom sink, just soapy water like you said and we do put the appropriate treatment in it, but it can smell amazingly bad for soapy water at times.

[bushpilot]

Originally Posted by hot rod

I'm not a fan of dumping gray water on the ground, but I know a lot of guys do. Our trailer only gets gray water from the bathroom sink, just soapy water like you said and we do put the appropriate treatment in it, but it can smell amazingly bad for soapy water at times.

Texas & Florida were so dry last year my brother in law was practically BEGGING me to "water his lawn" w/ our gray water.

interesting - ive leaked my gray water SEVERAL times (and never had any odor)...even when its sat w/ gray water in it for several weeks....and my treatment of gray water is on the LIGHT to NON-EXISTENT

now that BLACK tank PHEW - even w/ light <urine only> use...and we are heavy on the WATER/DILUTION ratio use...doesnt take much for that water to STINK.

[andyg]

Sometimes I can't let the gray water out on the ground. The shower and sinks have traps to prevent odor from the tank. I would connect between the tank and the traps so stink should not be a problem. I'm also pretty sure that the holding tanks are vented through the roof. I could just open both dump valves with the cap still on the outlet but you can imagine how messy that would be. I think I can pipe an overflow from the gray into the but I would have to be careful not to let the black get full also. I do have tank monitors and would have to keep an eye on them.

[SHORTS]

IIRC Haulmark is using 3 identical waste tanks, black plastic, 1 black and 2 for grey, they looked to be about 2 ft wide and fit all the way across the coach with a large sump that used most of the basement space on the right side of the coach

[bushpilot]

Originally Posted by SHORTS

IIRC Haulmark is using 3 identical waste tanks, black plastic, 1 black and 2 for grey, they looked to be about 2 ft wide and fit all the way across the coach with a large sump that used most of the basement space on the right side of the coach

our haulmark does NOT use 3 waste tanks...and ive never seen one that used 3 OR any conversion trucks that had tanks that went across the width of the coach...not sure how they'd do that w/ the drive line in the way.

our 65 gallon "gray & black" holding tanks are only on the road side - accessed by a SINGLE basement/bay door.

[andyg]

I had a chance to look today. I have (2) 24 gallon tanks. I'm not sure why they used such small holding tanks when there is room in the compartment for more capacity.

[SHORTS]

I went thru the haulmark factory in early october and the new units that I saw had tanks that were mounted ahead of the rear axle, above the truck frame and below the floor structure, about 24 '' wide,4 to 8'' deep with a 24'' deep sump on the road side, IIRC they are 65 or 70 gal each, with a spiffy manifold and drain system all mounted in in the cabinet. potable water was either 150 or 200 gal under the master bed depending on center or side mount.

[bushpilot]

Shorts - i DONT believe thats their "conventional" build and certainly youll find far fewer units built like that....how do they manage getting WASTE water in a holding tank thats higher than the FRAME the floor is built on ?

I've seen pictures of ONE unit that had a raised REAR sleeping quarters...which permitted a 2nd level of basement storage (above frame)...which allowed for pass thur storage - it had FRESH water tanks in the pass thru, but again fresh water is PUMPED to the faucets / showers etc.

im wondering how they could get gray/black water to drain into tanks that are above the floor/frame.

[SHORTS]

Don;
The new Haulmarks that I saw all had the coach floor and basement framing built and mounted by a sub contractor and they were raised off of the truck frame rails by about 8'', haulmark then installs the subfloor and builds the wall and roof framing and installs the waste tanks, slideout mechanisms and lower wire harness as required, the chassis and framework are then moved into a different building where the build continues away from the heavy fabrication of the structure. Their was a pallet with pre made waste tanks in the frame fab shop. If you are ever in the Elkhart area you would probably enjoy a factory tour, just call and arrange a time that works with them.

shorts

[SHORTS]

I apologise, it's Showhauler that subs out the floor and basement frames, Last Oct, I factory toured Haulmark, Renegade, Showhauler, ARI custom sleepers, ICT custom sleepers and 3 trailer plants as well as the surplus outlets in the Elkhart area. Some of the info gets into the wrong mental file until i look at my paper notes.

shorts

[Dragonslayer140]

Shorts, how long did it take you to pull off you whirlwind tour? The wife and I are thinking about scheduling a trip out to Indiana over a 4 day weekend this spring to tour some factories. I have the big three on my list, and we want to swing down to visit Hawk engineering. We have yet to fully make up our minds on how we will go about our conversion so I figured a trip to the factories will give us some more insight. So far we have three options in mind. 1. Buy a complete unit from a vendor (Wife likes this one because it will not involve me spending a lifetime draining our bank account until i get it finished. 2. Build it from scratch and have everything I want. 3. Find a company like Hawk that will build me a custom shell.

you mention you visited the custom sleeper companies... I have been wondering about that option as they are used to building boxes for just about any chassis that will survive loads of hard miles. thinking their cost for a custom shell would be pretty high though.

Any insight you have on which of the places you visited were worthwhile and which ones were not would be appreciated. Its a long trip out from the west coast and I want to make it worthwhile.

Thanks
Dave

[SHORTS]

Dave;
We spent 3 full days touring and talking with the rv manufacturers between Elkhart and Ft. Wayne. The rv plants are definitely more production oriented than the conversion places, everyone builds some of the parts/process and outsource some of them to be cost effective.

I also am in the process of determining/researching how to get to the ultimate rig to fit my needs, my wife also doesn't want another project,yet the right package has not surfaced yet.

The sleeper people will build the custom sleeper of your dreams as long as it doesnt have slides or steps that extend out the sides, " it has to remain truckstop friendly, nothing for another truck to get hung up on". Cost wise they look to be competive with the conversion companies.

my advice would be to do as much research into what you want/need in a coach at the local level and then call the sales managers to discuss your desires and set up appointments for tours.

Email me for more info/opinions. shortsiossi@yahoo.com

[blizzardND]

SpaceCraft in Concordia MO they build a bunch of really cool rigs for the carnival and entertainment biz. Most / everything they build is one offs so they are used to our strange or wild ideas. Next rig we do I hope be a SpaceCraft.

-blizz

[rjdhomes]

You should be able to put a cross-over tube between the tanks, but keep it high so that you get extra capacity only when the gray tank gets close to filling. Also, more liquid and less solid waste that could possibly backflow into the gray tank. NRC may be able to give you ideas for getting more capacity or a larger gray tank.

If you go to Elkhart area- you can see Showhauler, NRC, Haulmark, Chariot and Renegade. They are all within 20-30 minutes of each other.
Thread was hijacked somewhat, sorry

Bob

[Gordy]

We just got back from Elkhart. We spent 6 days researching conversion companies(NRC, Showhauler, Renegade, Chariot and Haulmark) and suppliers. Lots of great ideas-lots of things to spend money on. I does get confusing at the end of it all, for sure. It was interesting though to hear the various justifications as to why their coach was better than his coach. Aside from conversion companies, we visited HWH in Iowa,frame modification and leveling companies around Elkhart and Precision Painting. BTW-This was our second trip in 6 months to firm up our plans (and still the drawing is in pencil lol)

[Bob86ZZ4]

I had HWH levelers on my Allegro class A before my current rig. They were put on that camper in '03, so I'm guessing HWH may have made some improvements since then. But, I was not happy with them. They were the kind that swing down first and then extend. Only kind they could fit on that camper I guess. That was half of the problem. The actuator piston that makes them pivot was not good and failed on two of mine. One of the rams also failed. Their jacks are completely proprietary and all the local hydraulic repair guys I contacted or showed the rams to said they couldn't work on them because HWH uses special fittings and stuff. Gotta send everything back to them for repair. I don't like that. My present rig has Equalizer Systems Equalizer Systems - Electric and Hydraulic Lift and Leveling - Horse Trailers, Cargo Trailers, Motorhomes, RVs . They were also installed in '03. So, same vintage as HWH I guess. I think it's a much better system. Check them out.

[andyg]

Originally Posted by rjdhomes

You should be able to put a cross-over tube between the tanks, but keep it high so that you get extra capacity only when the gray tank gets close to filling. Also, more liquid and less solid waste that could possibly backflow into the gray tank. NRC may be able to give you ideas for getting more capacity or a larger gray tank.

If you go to Elkhart area- you can see Showhauler, NRC, Haulmark, Chariot and Renegade. They are all within 20-30 minutes of each other.
Thread was hijacked somewhat, sorry

Bob

Thanks for your comments Bob. You pretty much spelled out what I want to do. Keep the crossover pipe up high so gray water only flows into the black tank after the gray is full. I would not want them to mix all of the time. My Dad is converting a Prevost right now. He may make a run to the Elkhart area soon. I'll have to ride with him.